May 30, 2004: Our First Interview
Well, Aunt Nancy and I made up our minds to start talking to people about the Doc and Kathleen and how they died. But how do you start to talk to people about something that happened sixty years ago? And who do you start with?
We didn’t know anything to do but get on with it. So Aunt Nancy went to calling people she thought might be willing to have a conversation with us. And I wrote a proper note asking for help on pink paper to my social studies teacher of forty years before, Madeline McBrayer. She’d always been interested in local history. Asked me every time I’d run into her over four decades where was the story she’d asked me to write about the explosion down at the train depot. I never did write that story. Wish I had.
Nancy and I were both able to set up appointments for May 30th. Mrs. McBrayer got it in her head that we needed to talk to Jennie Nichols. So she saw to it that that meeting was set up. She asked us to come to her house in the morning, then we could all go together to meet Miss Jennie, which was what I’d always called Mrs. Nichols, back when I was in school and Sunday school with some of her children. After Miss Jenny, we had a lunch date with Aunt Nancy’s interesting party. She had called Ellen Bennett, the youngest of that houseful of Bennett girls.
Nancy’d called Ellen about a week before and said, “Ellen, your remember my niece, Sara Ann? She and I, we are trying to find out what all people might remember about the night Kathleen and Doc died. Would you meet with us, and tell us about what you remember?”
Ellen had been stunned by the question. She said, “I just don’t think I could talk about that. I am sorry, but no. I just wouldn’t feel right talkin’ about it. I feel just terrible tellin’ you no. I hate it. But I can’t do it.”
Nancy told her not to worry about it. That she understood.
An hour later Ellen called Nancy back. “I don’t know what in the world I’m afraid of. There’s nobody left anymore to care if I tell you all what I remember. And I’m sorry I said no. So let’s just do it. I’d love to see y’all anyway.”
So, we were set to have lunch with Ellen after all. But first we’d meet with Mrs. McBrayer and Miss Jennie.
Of course, when I was fourteen years old, back in 1963, I’d thought Mrs. McBrayer was old as the hills. As we stood at her front door, I’d already made my mind up that she’d be a truly feeble old woman, barely able to make her way around and in need of my patience and kindness. No such of a thing.
When Mrs. McBrayer opened her door, I couldn’t tell that a single day had passed since she sent us on our way to the high school, well-versed in social studies. I tried to calculate rapidly how old she might be. But I’d failed at rapid calculation, even when I was fourteen. It was no use. Now that I’ve had some leisure to study the question, I’d put Mrs. McBrayer at around eighty. A strong healthy eighty. Not so old, after all, from where I am sitting now at sixty. When we walked in, a big old yellow dog got up from his nap to greet us, made a circle and lay back down at his mistress’s bidding. Then the dog’s mistress said to us, “Come on back to the kitchen. I’m just putting up some preserves.” As my mother would’ve put it, Mrs. McBrayer still had the habit of command.
Well have mercy. Mrs. McBrayer had more energy than I did. While she got her preserves jars out of the water bath canner, we had a conversation. We found out a few things we didn’t know about Mrs. McBrayer–the most significant one being that she had grown up in another county and had come to Gearing after she married in the 1950s. So she had no first-hand memories to report on the murders. Oh, but she’d heard the subject discussed aplenty. And she was eager to hear what Miss Jennie, apparently a local expert, had to say on the subject. She’d set us up a date with Miss Jennie at the Methodist Church, and we were due there shortly.
Mrs. McBrayer turned her stove off, stripped her apron off, and went for the front door, calling for us to follow. One thing I had known about Mrs. McBrayer: She always was a no-nonsense, get down to business, practical woman.
We found Miss Jennie in the sanctuary–the very same sanctuary where Aunt Nancy’s wedding had been in 1952. On that day, I’d stood right where Miss Jennie was standing, in my dark green velvet flower-girl dress. Or, rather, I’d been held there tightly by Aunt Frankye for fear I might escape and run back up the aisle–or do only heaven knows what. I had not been a very reliable four-year-old.
“Oh Lord it’s so good see y’all.” Miss Jenny went to hugging necks. She always was excitable. Then she implored us to admire each of the needlepoint kneeler cushions surrounding the foot of the communion rail. She told us the exact member of the Womens’ Society of Christian Service who had spent all last winter working on each one.
The sanctuary seemed at first quite a bit different from the way we’d remembered it. It wasn’t dark and mysterious anymore, and it didn’t smell like carnations and red wax sweeping compound. The place was light and airy, newly painted in a pale cream shade. And it smelled fresh too, slightly lemony. But it was really essentially unchanged. And that’s good. It’s a good thing, even though an illusion, to find that some material things never seem to change. The sanctuary had the same dark wood altar and communion rail. The same pulpit and tall chairs for the ministers. The choir loft was back up behind them, where it had always been. Thank goodness, the stained glass windows were still there. One with Kathleen and Doc’s names, and one for Ross Gardner.
There was my Papaw’s name, in the window given to him by a congregation grateful for his hard work during that initial building program. It had been without a name for so many years, because Papaw lived for decades after being awarded the honorary memorial window. One time a new minister and a new finance committee had offered the window up for sale. Ammaw had fought for it, joined by many older members who still had their capacity to remember, and now there it was, right down front. Near the back on the west side was a window with names of Ammaw and Papaw’s three babies who had died so close together.
We’d had time to look around, but Miss Jennie was still talking about the kneeler cushions. They were indeed very nice, but Miss Jennie went on about them so long, I began to worry that she was going to balk on the discussion we came for. However, Mrs. McBrayer did not intend for that to happen. Anytime Miss Jennie tried to lollygag, Mrs. McBrayer would nudge her along.
“These girls have to talk to somebody else at noon, Jennie. We need to get on down to it.”
We followed Miss Jennie for the full tour of the new building, with Mrs. McBrayer pushing the party on from behind. Finally we made our way to a small meeting room with chairs enough, where we all sat down. And, bless her heart, Miss Jenny didn’t have much choice but to join us.
Now, Miss Jennie always did have a nervous, high-pitched, rapid speaking voice. Still southern, but faster than most. I always figured it was because she had that big houseful of children to raise right by herself. I never did know where Mr. Nichols went to. And she was teaching school to keep them fed. And teaching Sunday School to keep us all straight. Life had to be rough for Miss Jennie sometimes, but she’d always kept her troubles to herself. She’d just set her lips a little tighter and press on. It seemed to me that all these circumstances were sometimes near to giving Miss Jenny a nervous breakdown.
On the day of our interview though, she seemed a degree more intense than usual, and more than ever determined to keep her worries private. As good as soul as she was, she sounded like that Texas Cheerleader Murderer woman. Remember that voice? the pitch rising higher, as she negotiated on the phone with the hired killer? That nervous laugh to cover up her nervousness, while she rationalized the plot for the murder of the little cheerleader girl and her mother? “Well, I’ve got these here two-carat diamond earbobs. Would you take them? They’re worth at least two thousand. Ain’t it awful what we’ll do for our children?” Even though she’d never hurt a fly, that’s how Miss Jennie sounded.
She said to Aunt Nancy, “Now what was it y’all were interested in?” just a little too loud, as if she’d momentarily forgotten why we were there.
Aunt Nancy explained our mission. “We are just trying find out what people remember about Kathleen and Doc and how they died and all. So we thought . . . I can’t remember how old you were at the time, Jennie. I was fourteen. But it seems . . . we’re just hoping you’d remember something about it.”
Jenny looked blankly at Aunt Nancy. “You were fourteen. That puts me about . . . “ She mumbled something unintelligible and then continued. “Well, we went to the fire.” She was right defiant about that. “Edith Parker and I went to the fire. We caught a ride down there with somebody, but I don’t just remember who. But we walked back, I think.”
I asked “Did you just hear about it and go down there or. . . .”
“Oh well, we just followed all the fires. You know how it was. Somebody said who it was, so we just took off. I guess we heard the fire siren or something. I don’t know.”
“Did we have a fire truck in town?” I was not sure where the siren came from.
“I guess we did. Probably drawn by a horse.” Jennie laughed that nervous Texas woman laugh. “I b’lieve the siren came from the telephone office. I was spendin’ the night with Edith. If I wasn’t at Edith’s house, Edith was at my house.”
That put me to wondering, “Did your mama–just–let you get up in the night and go off?”
Jennie denied that. “Oh no! Our mamas didn’t know it. It was on a Friday night and everything was just calm and Minnie and Jack was already in the bed asleep. And they never did miss us. Edith ud pro’bly remember who took us down there but I declare I can’t remember who took us down there.”
Mrs. McBrayer leaned forward and put her two cents in. “Why don’t you call Edith and ask her?”
Miss Jennie just looked down and said again, “I just really don’t know.”
Mrs. McBrayer insisted, “There’s a phone right there. Call her and ask her. It’s 555-2908.”
That was amazing. I turned in my chair to get a better look at the indomitable Mrs. McBrayer. “We’ve got the phone book sittin’ right here. I cannot believe you remember that telephone number.”
Gentle laughter rolled around the meeting room while Miss Jennie dialed the phone and Edith apparently answered.
Miss Jennie used her down and low voice into the receiver, “They wanna know who took us down there to the fire.”
They? Miss Jennie had already talked with Edith about our visit. It had probably been talked up all over town for a week.
“Mr. Cook. Of course. And who did we come back with? Delphus Hood, that’s right. Thank you darlin’.” She hung up the phone.
Aunt Nancy asked, “Was Mr. Cook a policeman then?”
Jennie answered, “Pro’bly so. And we rode down with him and rode back with Delphus Hood.”
“Delphus Hood was always good for a ride like that,” Mrs. McBrayer said.
“Oh was he?” I thought that was interesting. Nobody answered my question.
Miss Jennie reiterated her position. “I had forgotten who drove us down there, but I knew we got down there. I can just see it to this day.” She stared into space for a few seconds, and then her accusing eye came to rest upon me. “Are you writing an article on this?”
“Well, I might write something someday. We don’t know. Right now, I’m just trying to get somethin’ rollin,’ you know?”
“In her brain,” said Mrs. McBrayer.
So I went for it. “Tell us what else you remember. I’d like to know everything you remember.”
Miss Jennie started out a bit vague, but ended with conviction, “Oh I don’t remember any details. I remember seeing the fire. It was terrible. Just terrible. Everything a complete blaze when we got there.” Then she added with certainty, “And it was never solved.”
What was never solved? Did we say something should be solved?
So Aunt Nancy went after her. “A number of people have said something about the fire being very intense, apparently. And I think it was because there had been something poured on it.”
Miss Jennie was sure about one thing. “It was talk. It was just talk.”
“What all kind of talk did you hear?” That’s what I wanted to know.
“I don’t remember anything specific about it. It was some talk about . . . you know. . . kids don’t think anything. . . I call myself a kid at that time, ’cause I really was. People thought . . . I believe they thought it was a . . . a deliberate thing.”
Aunt Nancy said, “And it was.”
“I just remember that. . . that’s all I remember. But it was never proven.” Miss Jennie was insistent on that point.
The telephone rang and somebody in another room said “Jennie, there’s somebody for you on line one.” She picked up the receiver, said “Hey” and listened. Then answered. “Uh, hey. We’re writing a history here. Sara Ann’s here. Hart.”
Mrs. McBrayer said to Aunt Nancy and me, “I told her you were coming.”
Jennie on the phone: “And Nancy Kate. And Madeline’s here, and her name is McBrayer. She’s asking about the Harts’ — uh — Dr. McIntosh’s house.”
Mrs McBrayer, “I called Edith before I called Jennie.”
Miss Jennie continued to Edith. “She’s just saying someday she may write something about it. She’s just wantin’ to know.”
Aunt Nancy said, “She not going to put anybody’s name in it.”
And I chimed in, “If I did write about it, I wouldn’t put anybody’s name in it.”
“Okay. Edith says she’s told you all she knew.”
“Yeah. That’s what she told me. But see? She didn’t tell me about Hood.” Mrs. McBrayer was on the case.
Miss Jennie, still on the phone, said, “Oh, I do remember that. Talk about the ring wasn’t it? It was a ring. I don’t remember. That’s it. And that’s all we remember, isn’t it?” Jennie hung up.
“That’s all we remember?” Mrs. McBrayer asked.
“Okay,” I said. “I reckon they’ve agreed on that. What did Edith say?”
“She said ‘I just remember there was some talk about a diamond ring.’”
I looked at Aunt Nancy for her okay. She nodded. So I said, “Well, Nancy’s wearing the ring.’”
Aunt Nancy showed Miss Jennie the ring, and Mrs. McBrayer took a look too.
Miss Jennie said, in a softer voice, “And that’s the diamond ring. I remember that. I remember them thinkin’ maybe it was a deliberate . . . .” her voice trailed off. Then she said “So I don’t know whether they ever proved it or not.”
Mrs. McBrayer observed, “Well, you was a kid wasn’t you?”
I pressed Miss Jennie a little more. “Well, they wouldn’t really let you up close to the house or anything?”
“On no no no no no no.”
“And so you just came on back home after it was. . . after a little while?”
“Um-hm.”
Then Aunt Nancy took a turn. “I don’t guess it was ever proved that the house was set on fire, but it was clear as a bell that it was.”
Miss Jennie insisted again. “I don’t remember that.”
Aunt Nancy continued. “And I remember someone saying at the fire . . . and I remember this being talked. I didn’t hear it myself, but they said, some man standing there said, somebody had poured fuel on this fire. Because of the smell. He said ‘I’ve smelled a many a fire started with fuel. And somebody has poured some kind of fuel. . . . ‘”
Miss Jennie had to get a word in. “I think it was suspicious. Apparently because of the large blaze it caused. I don’t know and then suddenly there it was.”
Aunt Nancy ignored the interruption. “. . . and Kathleen had lots and lots of silver flatware and other stuff, and it was just melted. . . .” Miss Jennie was quick to agree. “Now that’s a hot fire, isn’t it?” I nodded, just to be polite. But I didn’t want Aunt Nancy to be hushed up by that. She continued about the silver “. . . into just globs. You know there was not a piece of silver left whole. I have one tablespoon that’s really bent up and everything, but that is the only piece of sterling that survived that fire. And this piece was really beat up.”
Then Miss Jennie started questioning. “You don’t remember anything else being found? I’d heard that you had the ring at one point. I’d just let it slip my mind.”
Did Miss Jenny hear of something else that was found?
Aunt Nancy said, “She had this ring on and the wedding band, and the wedding band had diamonds across it. And Kathleen always said she wanted me to have this ring. So, of course, Mama kept it for years. My sister Frankye had the wedding band.”
I asked, “The ring on her finger, was it still intact or did you just want it in a different setting?”
“It was intact.”
“Oh good.”
“It was all set in platinum.”
Miss Jennie opined. “I guess the platinum must’ve been hard or something. I don’t know a thing about that kind of thing.”
Aunt Nancy said, “I don’t either.”
I said, “I don’t know anything about metalurgy.”
Miss Jennie got up from her chair. “I wish I coulda been more help to you all. It was just so long ago and I was so young at the time . . .”
“Just a kid,” said Mrs. McBrayer.
“That’s right.” Miss Jennie didn’t miss a beat. “Now if y’all find out anything about this I hope you’ll be sure and let me know. I’d be real interested.”
So we were dismissed. As we walked back to the car, Mrs. McBrayer was clearly dissatisfied with the information we’d been able to get out of Miss Jenny. She said, “No wonder Hemingway drank. And beat his wives.”
I felt right sorry for Miss Jennie. She’d always been nice to me. So I said, “Well, I think we made her a nervous.”
“What did she have to be nervous about? Just because one of her girls works up there at the bank?”
“The bank. I’d forgotten about that Nichols girl workin’ at the bank. Well, that might be the key to it. That might be why Jennie was so nervous.”
We took Mrs. McBrayer on home and then went on to our lunch with Ellen.
But a couple of weeks later I was looking at old county newspapers on microfiche at the Samford University library, and I ran across a Gearing Ledger with Alice Hodges’ gossip column from late May of 1948. You’ll never guess what Miss Jennie did two weeks after she snuck off to that house fire she could barely remember on account of having been such a child at the time. She slipped off in the middle of the night again. Only this time she eloped up to Risin’ Fawn, Georgia and married Delbert Nichols.
The Right Southern Corner is a series by Sara Rast
Copyright: 2008 Sara Love Rast. All rights reserved.
The Right Southern Corner